Bradley's Fault, 3-2, loss in Finals of a SC 1.0

• Versions
• 1.0

Simple question, in the "picking your brain" department: your power gains come from iron throne, chamber and boneway, right? I get how you can win when you see all 3, but what do you do when you don't? I mean, assuming your opponent just attacks away and gives you dom and does not count, that means they got 3 uo + claim (I'm assuming you get rid of the renown) = 4 power, while you get dom+chamber (bringing them to 3) + 1,5 from boneway = 3,5, marginally winning in 5 turns, assuming you manage to stop one of their 3, otherwise they win before the last turn goes to dom. There it becomes a headache, because for every challenge you stop there's 0,5 less power for you (boneway), which means more turns for them.

The question is: how do you count that sh!t? I'd be interested in trying the deck out, I'd just like to know how it works.

Thanks for your time :)

What are you looking to setup and marshal r1?

@Sotiris they almost never get 3 UO. Only a few times do they have 2 or more characters on the board. The only claim I care about is Power, enter Burning on the Sand. They get 1 or maybe 2 challenges a turn and now with Unbent, probably 1. I only triggered the boneway once maybe twice the whole day. It's all about control, which means they don't get anything they want, lol. Oh, for Renown characters, enter Ghaston Grey, lol.

@Twn2dn I dream of the day for the big 4 with a Roseroad to be setup, lol. But honestly I'm probably taking any three card setup as this deck can absolutely have a 1 or fewer setup as I did in the finals and still hold out with him setting up the throne for 8 turns or so. Ideally though I'd like throne or table with one of the others, and hopefully get the other with building. But also now dragon tails

Why Dragonstone Port and not Ocean Road? Also reduces Neutrals.

@Kakita_Shiro Agenda, have to have 12 Stag or else it would have been Ocean Road

Haha realized it just a moment after I hit send

Late Summer Feast might be a good one here. If you don't spend the gold, it's basically an out-win for Dominance.

@chriswhite good idea, but there are no plots I think I would drop, but maybe that 7th spot

Oh my god !

Next time I expect nothing less than a no-core-set deck. :D

Absolutely love this deck!

I did something not quite as extreme (around 23-24 characters) and given how strong the Martell events are, it worked out really well! People just didn't want to attack.

You were right. Mind is thoroughly blown - I'm building this today for sure.

Sorry guys...it's my fault. ;)

What do you think about The Long Plan for the 7th plot? It may give you some dominance gold for two turns in a row.

What do you do against someone who plays out 10 strength worth of characters and never makes anything other than power challenges? That seems like the best play here, since intrigue and military don't matter against you.

NOOOO! I have been planning this EXACT deck for months now, but I was waiting for another good card or two to be released before building and publishing. I was also weighing Banner of the Watch for Craven/Forest/Wall, but Table is probably more reliable since it brings power denial.

Very glad it worked for you! Glad to find a fellow troll-minded deckbuilder.

@RenHero your welcome, remember build the newer version, only way to counter another Throne.

@Widowmaker93 it is

@Erik_ I have thought about that. with the new version i'm going to test Naval, Confiscation, and Plan, but probably settle back on Counting, but that new Summer plot is interesting as its almost an auto dom win.

@HouseCatofWar how do you imagine they can do that? with Trading? maybe. I was talking about this yesterday on facebook. I have 5 plots that send guys back, kill, or send to the discard pile. My opponent usually has 2 so even if they have one turn where they can actually pull that off, they get dom once and then we're on to the destruction. i keep trying to tell people, there are no characters on the board, either they are gone or they have run out of money to play them. i know people say marshal and just leave them on the board and don't attack or just save your gold. i believe there is no way someone would do that as it is against your nature as a thrones player. nobody came to the tournament to draw cards at the beginning and then discard them at the end of a turn. and if you don't know what your playing against it may too late by the time you try to figure it out. again, even in the 2 losses, i controlled the entire game, their throne just out paced mine with the gold from plots. The new version will allow me to try to compete. i'm not saying it's a great way to go at their throne, but it's the only way at the current moment.

@GreatGopher that happens to me a lot. deckbuilding is about the time of season it is. i had a lot of great builds after regional season here, but i don't play in any of the big 3 tournaments to close the year so i don't feel the need to release decks as most people want to see that they win first. but maybe i've gotten to the point where people like my decks and want to see more in or out of my season.

@GreatGopher Now you've got me wondering whether Martell Alliance StagWatch is worth trying, or if it just dilutes the deck too much looking for that Table? Also makes it a bit harder to fill the banners, since Dragonstone might become Ocean Road and suddenly you need three more yellow cards.

Haha. I was your third round opponent. Such a good game. Even with being "pissed on from the top of the wall" it had so many great moments and had a great story. Can't wait to play another one of your crazy decks.

it's definitely an interesting build. And a nice idea. However... it seems that the way you win is : the opponent does not expect it. If he does understand the idea early in the game he might be able to win easily. Even without the Throne.
For instance: Tywin&Mountain can more then compensate for the Throne. All you need is a couple of bodyguards and/or dupes to protect against Valar & Delay. 1 Treachery to protect against Ghaston (not to mention they get renown - further protection from Delay) and some duped chud like The Tickler or Pycelle to protect against Marched following Valar.
I agree that these are some things that might not come easily all at once... but.. having Ghaston+Throne+Chamber+burning on the sand or vengeance all at once... might not be so easy also.

nevertheless ... i will try it just for fun. See how it goes , and see the surprise/anger/anguish in the opponents eyes

Video of this match exist anywhere? Would love to watch it, if possible! Thanks!

@NickName You would think, oh I just put out tywin with a dupe and Mountain maybe some bodyguards and there is nothing he can do. All I have to say is "Oh my sweet summer child. How wrong you are." There is so much control in here that a Treachery or two isn't going to help all that much. This deck slows the game down and drags it out so far that your answers will run out sooner or later. This deck is nothing but answers and they just keep coming. I mean, go ahead and attack with Tywin when he has 2-3 Motley's and a Stinking Drunk on him. Or don't...either way this deck wins in those situations. I played against this twice on Saturday, witnessed two other games, and have played with the updated version in 3 games already today and it's just a kick in the dick to your opponent. lol

@NickName and that's where strategy, timing, and skill come in to play. also knowledge of how to run the deck. Remember I have 5 reset plots and a guarantee any deck with Gregor and Tywin has 2 if not a 3rd with FSOW. So that's 7-9 resets. No amount of dupes and bodyguards will save you. when you have that timely Treachery for Ghaston, I have that timely HJ for your answer. And not to mention the other control decks like GJ winter, like i played against running 2 Famine. A dead plot for them, 2 gold for them, 4 reserve for them. You wouldn't believe the size of people's discard piles. I have dead cards in a NW matchup, but think about how this game is running right now. Everything is to combat the big hitters in the game, Tywin, Gregor, Balon, Asha etc.... So all those answers you have for characters are all dead cards against me. Wildfire just to name another. People were having to Valar into empty boards and now have a 5 reserve for anything i send back.

Wouldn't you agree @Widowmaker93 , lol

Any issues with running out of cards in hand? That would be my one concern over a long game as there is not much draw in the deck and I feel like eventually I could run out of things to stop my opponent when each turn I need 1-2 effects to stop them and much of what you do sends their cards back to their hand, not out of play. I know reserve limits them, but if they have a full hand and I end up top decking I could see eventual issues. If it doesn't happen just because its all tricks then great...just curious.

@kidohearts To be fair ... that was my point entirely. That it depends on the draw. I conceded from the first commentary that it is difficult to hold all the answers in hand all at once. I just said that it is difficult on both sides.

@kidohearts however.. The more important point was that (at least from what it seems) the winning condition seems to be that your opponent is not aware of your strategy. Once he knows it... he might play around it.

@euphius actually no. i rarely had less than 4 cards if ever, even with running into bridge of skulls twice. people are often running Time of Plenty, Counting, Building. and thats where the strategy comes into play. what can you get away with letting through for them. now the new version has Unbent and Dragon Tails so they will help more.

@NickName that could be the case. but everybody after the first round knew what i was doing and i still did fine. even in the loses i controlled the entire game from start to finish, i just couldn't outpace their Throne. I'm now going with the only answer i can see to it at the moment.

just out of curiosity, what would you do to beat it? not marshal anything and hope to win dom while discarding cards, lol. that sounds like i'm being a dick and i don't mean it like that, this is why i hate typing. i am truly curious as it will help me to improve the deck.

well.... i did say what could be a winning strategy. Don't know exactly that it would work (since i did not play this deck or play against it). However... it is conceivable that an opponent just do challenges with chuds against an empty board (your Ghastons are limited to 3 also, you know?) And with Tywin out he might just put 2-3 chuds out every turn. Get uo & dom? Maybe. It's just a thought. He might treachery the Boneway as well..... Or perhaps Sea Bitch for Boneway? Just when you got to 6? If he is first player. Or tickle the Throne/Boneway/Chamber? Or Frozen Solid?
I played and won against a deck based on those locations. It was luck... i know. I had 2 Frozen Solids on the first turn and was second. He decided to put A feast for Crows as first plot , with Gendry duped , a Bastard in Hiding , the Throne & Chamber. I put Frozen on both.... 1 went for mil. 1 went for Gendry's forced reaction. And rezerve 4. He could not recover. Conceded in turn 2. What i mean is .. stuff happens. Maybe the opponent has the answers. Maybe not.

But this discussion reminds me of a joke (forgive the poor telling of it - I am not a native English speaker):

At the English Naval Academy some candidate faces an exam. He is asked to imagine some situation with a storm and fast winds. What do you do? "More rope, more sails". OK.... the winds get faster , what do you do? "More rope , more sails" and so on. At some point one of the examiners asks: "where do you get all this rope and sails from?" The candidate replies: "from the same place you get all that wind from"

@NickName lol. its all good. but all the scenarios you are describing are their perfect scenario right? I feel like i'm a decent player, so when i play GJ i search or hold on to my Nightmares for the sea bitch move and if i can't find it then i don't trigger the 6th one. against lannister i keep my HJ for treachery, etc... I feel like i'm pretty decent at knowing the house i'm playing against and looking for and saving my answers to their answers.

and i only have 3 Ghaston, oh fella, that's why Isle of Ravens is there. you would not believe how often i used Burning on the Sand, again and again and again, lol.

the only thing i worry about that you mentioned is Frozen Solid and that's why in the updated list i mention putting in confiscation if you see a lot of Stark in your meta.

i would love someone to flip Feast on their first turn as they will be discarding their a lot of cards. and then that's more power for me. trust me, one way or another their characters will go away. i played a guy who had all 3 iron mines in play and still ended the game with no characters on board.

in one game someone attacked with a renown character, knowing the deck i was playing against, i nightmared him, then delayed him next round.

strategy and skill, that's going to be the name of my podcast or videos, lol.

@TommyBoy249er i wish that game was taped or any of them

@kidohearts well, we all assume we are decent players. Knowledgeable in what the opponent my trow at us.
Don't get me wrong.. I definitely wanna try this deck , like i already said. Just for the fun of it. And I thank you for this nice idea and different kind of deck building. I'm just discussing what might be possible problems for the deck.
Surely wanna try it, though.

@kidohearts That's really something! :)

What about Political Disaster? You do have a lot of dupes, but still...

@kidoheartsI like this deck a lot. If I was to try and beat it, I'd probably run Old Forest Hunter out of a Watch/Stag deck to try and win dominance. I don't see anything else being remotely successful.

Great job!

I always love out of the box deck ideas to begin with (I did win via pillage a few times now as my "odd deck" claim to fame) or making bad cards play well unexpectedly, and this deck is as far in left field as any I may have dreamed up. Of the decks I currently have put together the ones I expect would fare best are a Bara/Kraken deck with a bunch of positive attachments as well as Table and Chair on my own end that would add some resistance to the bouncing of Unexpected Delay and any of my Banner Wolf builds because I love Frozen Solid right now (of which my favorite is my Targ/Wolf Roose Burn deck which again runs Frozen Solid as well as a low cost curve and a bunch of dupes to survive the resource drain this deck causes). Even then, I can't do mil challenges for risk of Vengence, so that's 1-2 UO per turn I have to skip and Danny is going to be too hard to get out and protect with the full compliment of Dragons against all the effects that can stop her.
Lets also be honest. While I think these decks might have a half shot against this build they are also ones I am unlikely to take anywhere outside of my Friday night casual play vs. friends or on IronThrone/OCTGN. They aren't what you would call Tier 1 decks...though they do mess up some Tier 1 players pretty good with surprises and plays they don't see coming.

@Sotiris @Twn2dn @TommyBoy249er @Kakita_Shiro @chriswhite @Campeur @NickName @Kakita_Shiro @Gerion Lannister @gr1mvengeance @GreatGopher @Erik_ @euphius @Diomedes @sandy @RenHero

check the link again, i've updated it again as i didn't realize Tower was once per phase. also Ravens will help against PD and it depends on the deck i'm against as to if i dupe them or not

This looks Nightmare to pilot to be honest. Were all the games in time? SO in the end you cut Tower of the Sun?

@uBaH i guess my brain just works like this. i have such a good time playing this style. just lots of strategy and gameplay. every game was in time. it goes many many plots but it goes quickly as there are not a lot of challenges to make and few decisions for the opponent.

the link should have the updated list. i cut Tower completely. made no sense with it being once per phase. thats just 1 gold as usually only use events in challenges.

if anybody sees this i will update the list again as Unbent should go to 2. i forget that its if your NOT first player and the low initiative may make us first. not quite sure what i'm going with instead. maybe a 3rd Dragon's Tail so i can drop Counting for Confiscation, Naval, or Fallen

So, I understand you're going with a theme here... but it seems to me that those 3 Dragonstone Port would be better replaced with 3 Vanguard Lancer. This would allow you to slow decks that go for an early rush, or those outpace you on passive power gain (e.g. Wall). They also combo really well with Unexpected Delay, since you can make a renown guy vulnerable to it, and then trigger the Vanguard on the next turn after it gets bounced. In many circumstances you might even manage to get though the odd power from an unopposed challenge on those small, post-Valar boards. Eh?

@chriswhiteSorry, but if you add one character to make the deck better, why not add another. It removes the pathos of the deck.

@kidoheartsWhat is Vengeance for Elia for? To kill their characters when they have a small board?

@Radix that, INT claim if they have low cards or there really is a card i want in my hand, and last resort, if i don't have burning, then i'll do it on a power challenge.

@chriswhite absolutely it would make the deck better. but i already built that deck originally. look through martell for "no bigs for you" that's my early build with characters, would tweak it now, but that's the character version.

I can't wait to give this a try. Have you published a new version?

Sorry, I can't run through the whole text, but looking at the list ... why run 2x Unexpected Delay with 15 negative attachments ... if something, I was going to expect the opposite lol ....

@dydra the attachments allow you leave only 2 characters available to chose for UD. Leaving the 2 biggest threats without attachments means your opponent is forced to pick one of them aswell

@Dydra what he said, lol. but also that is only 2 plots out of 7, so i only care about the power challenge, milk a renown can help, cressen, and i actually like milking that damn shipwright, lol. no kneeling my locations.

@jokerkd the link is towards the bottom of the writeup, but here it is also

thronesdb.com

Wad about even handed justice over dragonskull port?

@Xbreeder would love to, but alas, i cannot. I would have to have a character to target or else i can't play the card, but for sure that would be in.

Interesting Idea, but seems like an autoloss vs. Bara

Can u give a summary on how to run the deck. I tried but died horribly with no cards in hand and cant wim dominance without iron throne.

@Noogus i don't believe in auto loss, or i wouldn't play. now that is a very tough matchup as is any with someone who can play an iron throne. that's why the addition of Name to maybe help get gold in later rounds to push that deck. i'm not worried about their characters and they have no answers for my triggers unless it's bara something, but it would be a fun game.

@Xbreeder its kind of hard without being in the game to see their setup up, who i'm playing, but i'll give it a shot.

first thing i do is look at the faction/agenda i'm playing. GJ has Sow and NML, bara dom, lannister treachery, etc.... i then use that info for what to setup.

2nd- i'm always looking for at least a 3 card setup, maybe not turning one down as unfortunately this deck can set up real bad. of course i would like to see something like the throne or the chamber, hopefully both, lol.

3rd- more than likely if they set up no 4 or more cost characters i'm going to open first snow even if i don't have my pieces. with any luck i can at least cards to the board and do something like Dragon's Tail to give them lots of cards to discard to reserve.

4th- if it's one big, march it, if you have a clear board then back to back Delay to keep their best off the board. if you can go second to make it a 2 character send back.

5th- isle of ravens is the real MVP as it recycles your answers.

6th- the longer you keep the board clear or clearish, the more frustrated they will become and more mistakes made. i had someone marshal two 3 and under cost characters on my first snow turn.

7th- remember most decks are also running valar and/or marched and maybe some other 2 claim, low reserve something plot so it will work out in your favor and it's like 7 reset plots.

8th- use your triggers timely, you don't have to pop everyone each time. asses what you can afford to lose and what you don't want to lose.

9th- timing. you have some triggers that feed beatifully off each other. on a M challenge, ghaston first, then viper eyes, then vengeance and hopefully boneway, lol.

10th- keep burning for power challenges and int only if you have to

these will all vary from round to round based the skill level of your opponent, the setups, the factions you're against, etc.....

hope this helps

But how it will be possible to win? They just have to play the throne and the chamber (actually the usual Bara stuff :D) and some characters. They just sit there and say "go" each round and win the dom. Even harder against nw. I cant see a way how you win vs an opponent who does not need any kind of attacking

@Noogus i think i only triggered the boneway once all day. but yes another throne is the bane of the deck. doesn't matter which house it's out of. and sadly there aren't a lot of counters for it without characters so bring on some more cards, lol. and so i did go 0-2 against a throne, but i'm hoping some new cards i added helped, and that may not be enough. only one way to know, lol. and and playing some characters is easier said then done. they are better off just keeping the gold and discarding to reserve each round

It can and does. I got very lucky playing Bradley running this deck earlier today with my GJ/Stag. I had Asha with Disputed Claim and Theon with a Bodyguard out early to prevent Delay and as a GJ deck, well, there were saves. Multiple two claim plots forced him to use his effects earier and more often than he wanted, Great Kraken and Rise of the Kraken feasted on UO and I was able to push for the win. Even then, it was 1-2 turns different and my whole board would have been gone. I survived his valar, but my own would have wrecked me. My own marched would have done the same. He didn't get Ghaston until turn 3 so I could attack unchecked for too long (though 4 burning on the sands later it was slow progress).
What everyone is not looking at is how so many of these cards force your opponent into what you want them to do. Other passive decks are a weakness, not not an insurmountable one, though. NW will still hate Delay, Marched, and Valar. They probably will make challenges with no opposition there too, so you can get them that way as well. Few people will ever completely ignore an open board.
Icon strippers force opponents into mil challeneges, where vengence eats their board. Stinking drunk keeps a character knelt an extra turn until you can deal with it later (or they deal with it for you with their own removal). It doesn't win every game or every matchup, but tell me, what deck does? Most decks have a hard counter or a weakness to exploit. This is insanely creative and maybe look a little harder at how the cards work togther or draw a few test hands to imagine it and you may feel differently about how it plays.

Also, in the NW match, the wall can be hit with Nighmares, the Throne and Chamber cannot due to timing of Action windows in the dom phase. Additionally, if they get wall and you get dom on an empty board turn, you are gaining 2 to their 1. Its why NW is so hard to win with against Bara. Your power on faction card just feeds their dom tech.

@euphius appreciated thoughts and feedback

@kidoheartsThis Deck is some insane shit, it tpos even bloddthirst from 1.0 and i love it here on paper but i will curse you if i ever have to play against ;).

Now question, could The God's Eye be a thing in this deck?

Is there something in particular that caused you to swap coppers for confiscation?

@jokerkd it's a meta call. if you think there will be Stark as these location heavy decks grow in popularity, then you may see a lot of Frozen Solid which would be very bad to say the least, lol. Right now i'm trying to use the 3 Dragon's Tails and see if that helps. Just use it when they are already over reserve on a low reserve plot or a turn like first snow when many are going back to hand.

i've also thought about something like Fallen as it has good intiative, good gold for dom and high reserve. so something in that range. i'm not against counting, just trying without it, to get some more gold plots for dom to combat everybody just trying to outpace me with their throne if they get it out

Very nice deck! I made a modified version adding 3x Vanguard Lancer. It is not entirely a deck without face. :)

What do you think about that?

Why not only 3x Varys?

Really interesting idea, really enjoy the deck. This may have been answered above (but I didn't see anything whilst skim reading), but for a 7th plot why not Winter Festival? It's another passive power gain with a decent amount of gold to help with Dom. Is the possibility of hitting a summer plot too high?

@ironlix @lucarov For sure the deck with be better sprinkiling in a few characters. I would used 3x Lancer, 3x Trader, 2/3 Cressen and maybe Varys. Only problem with Varys is that I would have to add a high gold plot for sure to get him in. But for sure those would be the characters I would add.

@IAASM The 7th plot is for sure up for grabs. Counting is always good to get more cards. Confiscation is you expect a lot of Stark. Fallen for gold and intiative. Naval could be fun. So could Feast for crows, which as long as they don't have a Throne should be easy to trigger with your throne and 6 gold

@kidohearts I tried the deck yesterday and liked it. I think I'd try playing thronesdb.com destroy the opponent's Throne.

What do you think?

@T.Rex that for sure could work. a couple of things though. you can't play it unless you have Burning to avoid the Mil hit and then he will probably get Marched so just be ready for that.

There are for sure good things that could go in the deck if I wanted to add characters but i'm trying to do it with none. Lancer, Trader, Cressen, Storm, Varys are all good characters for the deck.

Yesterday in Poland, Martel banner of the watch lost in top4 (66 players, 5-1 in swiss). Deck without any characters, it had the wall, craven, and icons removals.

@Pento there is a link to the Decklist?

@Pento I've heard about this deck, just seems really hard to figure how they can't one character through a turn, but awesome

What would you remove if you were to add 3x Greenblood Trader? I know the idea of the deck was to play a no character deck, but let's say we forget this and just want to improve the deck (which I think it would because more draw).

@cadupa96 i would drop both UUU and 1 condemned. I do have a character version that I won a SC with if you would like to see it. Or look in the Martell decks for a deck called "No Bigs for You"

This...just...I'm weeping like a man who has just seen an angel. I've love Martell since WotN as the go to faction if you enjoy trollish assholery and making your opponent cry, and this deck is just the most beautiful, trollish, dickiest deck I have ever seen. You are an artist. You are the daVinci of trolls, and I am in awe, and I cannot wait to build this deck.

@anFeasogMor lol, thanks

@kidohearts What do you think about adding Lingering Venom to the list? From the Watchers on the wall set. I have been playing a deck very similar to this list you provided. Thinking of possibly making it an alliance deck with stark. This would provide a way to get rid of opposing thrones with (Frozen Solid). I would also use a new card coming up the next pack called (Marriage Pact). Then the other cards would be (Ward) and (Harrenahal). What do you think?

@LolipopKid21 i definitely like the idea of Stark in an alliance, the problem is that none of those houses have enough dig, so the deck would be way too inconsistent. I think Alliance is only going to work out of Tyrell right now. They have draw and dig. Out of those 3 houses there is LF, Trader, and that army if there are 3 or more plots so not enough. you'd have to play 2 Building.

I'm not sure about Venom, would have to make a tough call on what to drop. The character lite version is much better i think. Look for my deck in Martell called "NO BIGS FOR YOU", i won a SC with that one. 18 people

@kidohearts i ran a similar for a tournament this weekend and it was so much fun! It performed much better than i thought.

On one of my loss to Greyjoy Fealty, my opponent told me afterwards he had also tried this "faceless" deck before. But he has 3x Varys and "The Last of the Giants", he would bring Varys in in dominance phase to reset the board. i didn't think of that before!

@ironlixI also have a version with Varys and Last of the Giants. It was my first thought when that event was released. The version with characters is for sure better but I just wanted to see if I could do it

Instead of The Dragon's Tail run Greenblood Trader. I know ,it's a character.... But you could say your deck wins with the deadly Greenblood Trader. It synergizes well with The First Snow of Winter, and Unexpected Delay.

@kidohearts Any updates from the new packs up to The Red Wedding?